Re: merging html and jwc/page files

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Re: merging html and jwc/page files

Danny Angus-3

Comments are not handled in the same way as other xml nodes.
better would be to use another xml namespace, e.g. "tap" to combine the two
types in a single document.






|---------+---------------------------->
|         |           Ron Piterman     |
|         |           <mplayer@vollbio.|
|         |           de>              |
|         |           Sent by: news    |
|         |           <[hidden email]|
|         |           rg>              |
|         |                            |
|         |                            |
|         |           13/05/2005 13:18 |
|         |           Please respond to|
|         |           "Tapestry        |
|         |           development"     |
|         |                            |
|---------+---------------------------->
  >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
  |                                                                                                                               |
  |       To:       [hidden email]                                                                               |
  |       cc:                                                                                                                     |
  |       Subject:  merging html and jwc/page files                                                                               |
  >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|




hi,

Whereas in the users list there apears a thread on simplicity,
complaining about doing the same thing in 3 different way, I had an
Idee, beacuase of the annoying thing haviong 3 files for each component...

As *my* practice shows, putting the component definitions in the
.jwc/.page is less compfortable than just putting them in the html.
I still however have to define properties, parameters, assets beans aso
in the jwc/page.

So I thought if there could be a way to put them also in the html, and
making tapestry optionally use *two* files: the html and the class.
Since Wysiwig or whatever editability of the html files is an important
issue, I thoght of doing that using comments...

first thought was, putting a comment on the top of the html.
This would not work if one uses an xhtml format (which I am not sure is
supported by tapestry...) - any way, xml definition leaves an optional
"<?xml" definition at the very start.

Then I thought - one could use a special comment: <!--!tapestry!
                        ...
                                 !>

Now I think -
why not embed an xml processing instruction in the html as
tapestry
page/component definition?

something like :

<?tapestry

   <!DOCTYPE
page-specification PUBLIC
     "-//Apache Software Foundation//Tapestry
Specification 3.0//EN"
     "
http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry/dtd/Tapestry_3_0.dtd">
<page-specification
           ...

   </page-specification>

?>

So if the
page/component-specification points to a jwc/page, it will be
parsed as
usual.

If it points to an html, the processing instruction will be parsed,
also
as usual...

I think reducing tapestry files in a third will make *me*
very happy in
navigating through my project...

Cheers,
Ron
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Re: merging html and jwc/page files

Ron Piterman
????? Danny Angus:
> Comments are not handled in the same way as other xml nodes.
> better would be to use another xml namespace, e.g. "tap" to combine the two
> types in a single document.

Yes, I was also talking about processing instructions, not comments...

>
>
>
>
>
>
> |---------+---------------------------->
> |         |           Ron Piterman     |
> |         |           <mplayer@vollbio.|
> |         |           de>              |
> |         |           Sent by: news    |
> |         |           <[hidden email]|
> |         |           rg>              |
> |         |                            |
> |         |                            |
> |         |           13/05/2005 13:18 |
> |         |           Please respond to|
> |         |           "Tapestry        |
> |         |           development"     |
> |         |                            |
> |---------+---------------------------->
>   >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
>   |                                                                                                                               |
>   |       To:       [hidden email]                                                                               |
>   |       cc:                                                                                                                     |
>   |       Subject:  merging html and jwc/page files                                                                               |
>   >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
>
>
>
>
> hi,
>
> Whereas in the users list there apears a thread on simplicity,
> complaining about doing the same thing in 3 different way, I had an
> Idee, beacuase of the annoying thing haviong 3 files for each component...
>
> As *my* practice shows, putting the component definitions in the
> .jwc/.page is less compfortable than just putting them in the html.
> I still however have to define properties, parameters, assets beans aso
> in the jwc/page.
>
> So I thought if there could be a way to put them also in the html, and
> making tapestry optionally use *two* files: the html and the class.
> Since Wysiwig or whatever editability of the html files is an important
> issue, I thoght of doing that using comments...
>
> first thought was, putting a comment on the top of the html.
> This would not work if one uses an xhtml format (which I am not sure is
> supported by tapestry...) - any way, xml definition leaves an optional
> "<?xml" definition at the very start.
>
> Then I thought - one could use a special comment: <!--!tapestry!
>                         ...
>                                  !>
>
> Now I think -
> why not embed an xml processing instruction in the html as
> tapestry
> page/component definition?
>
> something like :
>
> <?tapestry
>
>    <!DOCTYPE
> page-specification PUBLIC
>      "-//Apache Software Foundation//Tapestry
> Specification 3.0//EN"
>      "
> http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry/dtd/Tapestry_3_0.dtd">
> <page-specification
>            ...
>
>    </page-specification>
>
> ?>
>
> So if the
> page/component-specification points to a jwc/page, it will be
> parsed as
> usual.
>
> If it points to an html, the processing instruction will be parsed,
> also
> as usual...
>
> I think reducing tapestry files in a third will make *me*
> very happy in
> navigating through my project...
>
> Cheers,
> Ron
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To
> unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For
> additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>
>
> ***************************************************************************
> The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student Loans Company Limited does not accept any  responsibility for changes made to this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in this e-mail are those o
>  f the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student Loans Company Limited.
>
> This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for the presence of computer viruses.
>
> **************************************************************************


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Re: merging html and jwc/page files

Howard Lewis Ship
The direction we're headed in is ... the location of the XML isn't the
problem, the existence of the XML is the problem.

This will probably be something Tapestry evolves to. I suspect a future
release of Tapestry will require JDK 1.5 and some or all of the XML
will be replaced with annotations.

On 5/13/05, Ron Piterman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ציטוט Danny Angus:
> > Comments are not handled in the same way as other xml nodes.
> > better would be to use another xml namespace, e.g. "tap" to combine the
two

> > types in a single document.
>
> Yes, I was also talking about processing instructions, not comments...
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > |---------+---------------------------->
> > | | Ron Piterman |
> > | | <mplayer@vollbio.|
> > | | de> |
> > | | Sent by: news |
> > | | <[hidden email]|
> > | | rg> |
> > | | |
> > | | |
> > | | 13/05/2005 13:18 |
> > | | Please respond to|
> > | | "Tapestry |
> > | | development" |
> > | | |
> > |---------+---------------------------->
> >
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
> > | |
> > | To: [hidden email] |
> > | cc: |
> > | Subject: merging html and jwc/page files |
> >
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > hi,
> >
> > Whereas in the users list there apears a thread on simplicity,
> > complaining about doing the same thing in 3 different way, I had an
> > Idee, beacuase of the annoying thing haviong 3 files for each
component...

> >
> > As *my* practice shows, putting the component definitions in the
> > .jwc/.page is less compfortable than just putting them in the html.
> > I still however have to define properties, parameters, assets beans aso
> > in the jwc/page.
> >
> > So I thought if there could be a way to put them also in the html, and
> > making tapestry optionally use *two* files: the html and the class.
> > Since Wysiwig or whatever editability of the html files is an important
> > issue, I thoght of doing that using comments...
> >
> > first thought was, putting a comment on the top of the html.
> > This would not work if one uses an xhtml format (which I am not sure is
> > supported by tapestry...) - any way, xml definition leaves an optional
> > "<?xml" definition at the very start.
> >
> > Then I thought - one could use a special comment: <!--!tapestry!
> > ...
> > !>
> >
> > Now I think -
> > why not embed an xml processing instruction in the html as
> > tapestry
> > page/component definition?
> >
> > something like :
> >
> > <?tapestry
> >
> > <!DOCTYPE
> > page-specification PUBLIC
> > "-//Apache Software Foundation//Tapestry
> > Specification 3.0//EN"
> > "
> > http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry/dtd/Tapestry_3_0.dtd">
> > <page-specification
> > ...
> >
> > </page-specification>
> >
> > ?>
> >
> > So if the
> > page/component-specification points to a jwc/page, it will be
> > parsed as
> > usual.
> >
> > If it points to an html, the processing instruction will be parsed,
> > also
> > as usual...
> >
> > I think reducing tapestry files in a third will make *me*
> > very happy in
> > navigating through my project...
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Ron
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To
> > unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For
> > additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
> >
> >
> >
***************************************************************************
> > The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the
addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for
delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us
immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You
may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other
person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student
Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to
this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to
rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written
confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender
accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your
responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in
this e-mail are those o
> > f the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student
Loans Company Limited.
> >
> > This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for
the presence of computer viruses.
> >
> >
**************************************************************************
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>


--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
Creator, Jakarta HiveMind

Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
and project work. http://howardlewisship.com
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RE: merging html and jwc/page files

Mark Stang
In reply to this post by Danny Angus-3
Shouldn't it be possible to create something in XDoclet that would allow us to maintain the XML from within the java?  That would be a good start and it would be backwards compatible.

regards,

Mark


-----Original Message-----
From: Howard Lewis Ship [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Fri 5/13/2005 6:56 AM
To: Tapestry development
Subject: Re: merging html and jwc/page files
 
The direction we're headed in is ... the location of the XML isn't the
problem, the existence of the XML is the problem.

This will probably be something Tapestry evolves to. I suspect a future
release of Tapestry will require JDK 1.5 and some or all of the XML
will be replaced with annotations.

On 5/13/05, Ron Piterman <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ????? Danny Angus:
> > Comments are not handled in the same way as other xml nodes.
> > better would be to use another xml namespace, e.g. "tap" to combine the
two

> > types in a single document.
>
> Yes, I was also talking about processing instructions, not comments...
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > |---------+---------------------------->
> > | | Ron Piterman |
> > | | <mplayer@vollbio.|
> > | | de> |
> > | | Sent by: news |
> > | | <[hidden email]|
> > | | rg> |
> > | | |
> > | | |
> > | | 13/05/2005 13:18 |
> > | | Please respond to|
> > | | "Tapestry |
> > | | development" |
> > | | |
> > |---------+---------------------------->
> >
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
> > | |
> > | To: [hidden email] |
> > | cc: |
> > | Subject: merging html and jwc/page files |
> >
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > hi,
> >
> > Whereas in the users list there apears a thread on simplicity,
> > complaining about doing the same thing in 3 different way, I had an
> > Idee, beacuase of the annoying thing haviong 3 files for each
component...

> >
> > As *my* practice shows, putting the component definitions in the
> > .jwc/.page is less compfortable than just putting them in the html.
> > I still however have to define properties, parameters, assets beans aso
> > in the jwc/page.
> >
> > So I thought if there could be a way to put them also in the html, and
> > making tapestry optionally use *two* files: the html and the class.
> > Since Wysiwig or whatever editability of the html files is an important
> > issue, I thoght of doing that using comments...
> >
> > first thought was, putting a comment on the top of the html.
> > This would not work if one uses an xhtml format (which I am not sure is
> > supported by tapestry...) - any way, xml definition leaves an optional
> > "<?xml" definition at the very start.
> >
> > Then I thought - one could use a special comment: <!--!tapestry!
> > ...
> > !>
> >
> > Now I think -
> > why not embed an xml processing instruction in the html as
> > tapestry
> > page/component definition?
> >
> > something like :
> >
> > <?tapestry
> >
> > <!DOCTYPE
> > page-specification PUBLIC
> > "-//Apache Software Foundation//Tapestry
> > Specification 3.0//EN"
> > "
> > http://jakarta.apache.org/tapestry/dtd/Tapestry_3_0.dtd">
> > <page-specification
> > ...
> >
> > </page-specification>
> >
> > ?>
> >
> > So if the
> > page/component-specification points to a jwc/page, it will be
> > parsed as
> > usual.
> >
> > If it points to an html, the processing instruction will be parsed,
> > also
> > as usual...
> >
> > I think reducing tapestry files in a third will make *me*
> > very happy in
> > navigating through my project...
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Ron
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> > To
> > unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> > For
> > additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
> >
> >
> >
> >
***************************************************************************
> > The information in this e-mail is confidential and for use by the
addressee(s) only. If you are not the intended recipient (or responsible for
delivery of the message to the intended recipient) please notify us
immediately on 0141 306 2050 and delete the message from your computer. You
may not copy or forward it or use or disclose its contents to any other
person. As Internet communications are capable of data corruption Student
Loans Company Limited does not accept any responsibility for changes made to
this message after it was sent. For this reason it may be inappropriate to
rely on advice or opinions contained in an e-mail without obtaining written
confirmation of it. Neither Student Loans Company Limited or the sender
accepts any liability or responsibility for viruses as it is your
responsibility to scan attachments (if any). Opinions and views expressed in
this e-mail are those o
> > f the sender and may not reflect the opinions and views of The Student
Loans Company Limited.
> >
> > This footnote also confirms that this email message has been swept for
the presence of computer viruses.
> >
> >
**************************************************************************
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>


--
Howard M. Lewis Ship
Independent J2EE / Open-Source Java Consultant
Creator, Jakarta Tapestry
Creator, Jakarta HiveMind

Professional Tapestry training, mentoring, support
and project work. http://howardlewisship.com


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Re: merging html and jwc/page files

Pablo Lalloni-2
In reply to this post by Howard Lewis Ship
El Vie 13 May 2005 09:56, Howard Lewis Ship escribió:
> This will probably be something Tapestry evolves to. I suspect a future
> release of Tapestry will require JDK 1.5 and some or all of the XML
> will be replaced with annotations.

This annotations thing... would be optional, right?

I see to many cons, but I guess it depends on how Tapestry 4.0 comes out.

--
Pablo I. Lalloni

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Re: merging html and jwc/page files

Erik Hatcher
In reply to this post by Mark Stang

On May 13, 2005, at 9:18 AM, Mark Stang wrote:

> Shouldn't it be possible to create something in XDoclet that would  
> allow us to maintain the XML from within the java?  That would be a  
> good start and it would be backwards compatible.

You mean like this?  :)

     http://xdoclet.sourceforge.net/xdoclet/tags/apache-tags.html

It's been done, but I'm in the camp that believes the Tapestry  
separation is done properly.  I don't think annotations or XDoclet  
are necessarily the right way.  Annotations might be useful in some  
cases, but I'd like to see the pros/cons of trying to get back to  
even simpler forms of componentry with POJO's and IoC.

     Erik


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Re: merging html and jwc/page files

Jamie Orchard-Hays
I'm on board with Erik's comments. With the separate glue page (page
spec) I can update a page while it's running. If this stuff is moved to
XDoclet Tags or annotations, then I have to regenerate/rebuild. That's a
step backwards.

Jamie

Erik Hatcher wrote:

>
> On May 13, 2005, at 9:18 AM, Mark Stang wrote:
>
>> Shouldn't it be possible to create something in XDoclet that would  
>> allow us to maintain the XML from within the java?  That would be a  
>> good start and it would be backwards compatible.
>
>
> You mean like this?  :)
>
>     http://xdoclet.sourceforge.net/xdoclet/tags/apache-tags.html
>
> It's been done, but I'm in the camp that believes the Tapestry  
> separation is done properly.  I don't think annotations or XDoclet  are
> necessarily the right way.  Annotations might be useful in some  cases,
> but I'd like to see the pros/cons of trying to get back to  even simpler
> forms of componentry with POJO's and IoC.
>
>     Erik
>
>
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> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>
>

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Re: merging html and jwc/page files

Robert Zeigler-2
I concur. One of the things I really liked about the tapestry template
system was a) I could keep everything (except the jwcid) out of the
template.  I can hand things to a graphic designer without them having
to worry about what all the funky attributes mean. :) And, as Jamie
pointed out, I'm not having to regenerate or rebuild anything when I
make binding changes, etc.

Robert

Jamie wrote:

> I'm on board with Erik's comments. With the separate glue page (page
> spec) I can update a page while it's running. If this stuff is moved to
> XDoclet Tags or annotations, then I have to regenerate/rebuild. That's a
> step backwards.
>
> Jamie
>
> Erik Hatcher wrote:
>
>>
>> On May 13, 2005, at 9:18 AM, Mark Stang wrote:
>>
>>> Shouldn't it be possible to create something in XDoclet that would
>>> allow us to maintain the XML from within the java?  That would be a
>>> good start and it would be backwards compatible.
>>
>>
>>
>> You mean like this?  :)
>>
>>     http://xdoclet.sourceforge.net/xdoclet/tags/apache-tags.html
>>
>> It's been done, but I'm in the camp that believes the Tapestry
>> separation is done properly.  I don't think annotations or XDoclet
>> are necessarily the right way.  Annotations might be useful in some
>> cases, but I'd like to see the pros/cons of trying to get back to
>> even simpler forms of componentry with POJO's and IoC.
>>
>>     Erik
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>>
>
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Re: merging html and jwc/page files

Eugene Lucash
In reply to this post by Danny Angus-3
How about move components to Java source instead
proceeding to make html templates dirty.
I'm sure you all seen Wicket's approach.
I think it can be something like that and I surely
believe that we make a good use of @Annotations.

Html templates must stay clean, not so JSF(on JSP)-ish.


 




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Re: merging html and jwc/page files

Luc Peerdeman
In reply to this post by Jamie Orchard-Hays
Jamie wrote:

> I'm on board with Erik's comments. With the separate glue page (page
> spec) I can update a page while it's running. If this stuff is moved to
> XDoclet Tags or annotations, then I have to regenerate/rebuild. That's a
> step backwards.

I agree, a big step backwards ! The separation of different stuff into
different files in Tapestry is one of the Good Things of the framework !
Don't throw this away, in an attempt to make things 'more compact' (and
less clear imho). At the very least make it an option to keep things
clearly separated.

Luc.


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