prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?

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prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?

David Rees
Reading the prototypejs mailing list archives, it's pretty clear that
prototypejs is pretty much dead at this point in time.

The tapestry5-jquery team have done a great job replacing prototypejs
with jquery which is pretty much the defacto javascript library these
days.

Is it time to bring tapestry5-jquery into the core project?

What are the long term plans?

As a Tapestry developer, I normally try to minimize my use of third
party plugins - they are very rarely supported as well as the core
project itself so while using a 3rd party plugin may save some short
term development effort, it usually comes around later when dealing
with version updates - hence my suggestion to bring tapestry5-jquery
into the core project.

Obviously, it's likely that a lot of people have built Tapestry apps
using prototypejs since it's bundled with Tapestry - so coming up with
a plan that allows for minimal pain while migrating will be essential.

-Dave

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Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?

Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 05:03:56 -0200, David Rees <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Is it time to bring tapestry5-jquery into the core project?
> What are the long term plans?

Check these pages:
https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAP5-999
http://tapestry.apache.org/javascript-faq.html

:)

--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,  
and instructor
Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
http://www.arsmachina.com.br

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Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?

Howard Lewis Ship
We are currently caught between the wrong technology (PrototypeJS) and
the need for backwards compatibility. I'm not sure how that will play
out in 5.4 but it will (finally!) be addressed.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 4:46 AM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 05:03:56 -0200, David Rees <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Is it time to bring tapestry5-jquery into the core project?
>> What are the long term plans?
>
>
> Check these pages:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/TAP5-999
> http://tapestry.apache.org/javascript-faq.html
>
> :)
>
> --
> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and
> instructor
> Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
> http://www.arsmachina.com.br
>
>
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--
Howard M. Lewis Ship

Creator of Apache Tapestry

The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!

(971) 678-5210
http://howardlewisship.com

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Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?

lprimak
I would say it's better to favor better functionality rather than backwards compatibility in this case.

On Dec 14, 2011, at 1:27 PM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:

> We are currently caught between the wrong technology (PrototypeJS) and
> the need for backwards compatibility. I'm not sure how that will play
> out in 5.4 but it will (finally!) be addressed.


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Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?

Hugi Thordarson
As a new Tapestry user with no legacy code whatsoever… +1

;-)

- hugi



On 14.12.2011, at 18:30, Lenny Primak wrote:

> I would say it's better to favor better functionality rather than backwards compatibility in this case.
>
> On Dec 14, 2011, at 1:27 PM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>
>> We are currently caught between the wrong technology (PrototypeJS) and
>> the need for backwards compatibility. I'm not sure how that will play
>> out in 5.4 but it will (finally!) be addressed.
>
>
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Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?

Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo
In reply to this post by David Rees
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:30:15 -0200, Lenny Primak <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

> I would say it's better to favor better functionality rather than  
> backwards compatibility in this case.

Backward compatibility is a very strong priority for Tapestry 5. This  
doesn't mean we shouldn't have a T5 version based on jQuery, but we should  
continue providing Prototype. We could add a configuration symbol to  
switch from one to another.

>
> On Dec 14, 2011, at 1:27 PM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>
>> We are currently caught between the wrong technology (PrototypeJS) and
>> the need for backwards compatibility. I'm not sure how that will play
>> out in 5.4 but it will (finally!) be addressed.
>
>
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--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,  
and instructor
Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
http://www.arsmachina.com.br

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Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?

Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo
In reply to this post by David Rees
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:36:18 -0200, Hugi Thordarson <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

> As a new Tapestry user with no legacy code whatsoever… +1
> ;-)

I'll need to change my Tapestry user hat for my Tapestry PMC member hat  
now. :) A little bit of history . . .

In my humble opinion, the biggest issue in Tapestry's decade-long history  
is the lack of backward compatibility between major releases (3 to 4, 4 to  
5). Some people (including some very insistent trolls) still say that.  
Tapestry 5 has at least 3 years of almost perfect backward compatibility  
and some people still complain about Tapestry's perceived lack of backward  
compatibility. No, I don't think Tapestry can remove Prototype support.  
Until now, Tapestry shipped with Prototype and many people (I'd say most  
users, as tapestry5-jquery was created in 2010) use Prototype for their  
JavaScript needs.

* tapestry5-jquery team: when the first stable version was released? Just  
curious. :) By the way, keep up the good work! I haven't experimented it  
yet due to lack of free time, unfortunately . . .

--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,  
and instructor
Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
http://www.arsmachina.com.br

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Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?

David Rees
In reply to this post by Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo
On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 10:36 AM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
<[hidden email]> wrote:
> On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:30:15 -0200, Lenny Primak <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>> I would say it's better to favor better functionality rather than
>> backwards compatibility in this case.
>
> Backward compatibility is a very strong priority for Tapestry 5. This
> doesn't mean we shouldn't have a T5 version based on jQuery, but we should
> continue providing Prototype. We could add a configuration symbol to switch
> from one to another.

It's up to the devs (like yourself) how long to provide backwards
compatibility with Prototype.  A configuration symbol to switch from
one to another would be useful.  I could also see it being useful on a
per-page level when migrating larger apps.

>> On Dec 14, 2011, at 1:27 PM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote:
>>> We are currently caught between the wrong technology (PrototypeJS) and
>>> the need for backwards compatibility. I'm not sure how that will play
>>> out in 5.4 but it will (finally!) be addressed.

Glad to hear that - what does the roadmap to 5.4 look like?

-Dave

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Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?

Michael Gentry-2
In reply to this post by Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo
Tapestry 6 anyone?  :-)

mrg


On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:36:18 -0200, Hugi Thordarson <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>
>> As a new Tapestry user with no legacy code whatsoever… +1
>> ;-)
>
>
> I'll need to change my Tapestry user hat for my Tapestry PMC member hat now.
> :) A little bit of history . . .
>
> In my humble opinion, the biggest issue in Tapestry's decade-long history is
> the lack of backward compatibility between major releases (3 to 4, 4 to 5).
> Some people (including some very insistent trolls) still say that. Tapestry
> 5 has at least 3 years of almost perfect backward compatibility and some
> people still complain about Tapestry's perceived lack of backward
> compatibility. No, I don't think Tapestry can remove Prototype support.
> Until now, Tapestry shipped with Prototype and many people (I'd say most
> users, as tapestry5-jquery was created in 2010) use Prototype for their
> JavaScript needs.
>
> * tapestry5-jquery team: when the first stable version was released? Just
> curious. :) By the way, keep up the good work! I haven't experimented it yet
> due to lack of free time, unfortunately . . .
>
>
> --
> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and
> instructor
> Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
> http://www.arsmachina.com.br
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
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Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?

lprimak
In reply to this post by Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo
Yea, the first thing I heard about tapestry is that's it's good but doesn't care about backwards compatibility.
I had clean-sheed design so I didn't care.

As you saw, I chose my words very carefully.  'favor' is the operative word, not 'the hell with backwards compatibility'

Isn't it true though that if you are relying on Prototype in your Tapestry app, you aren't really relying on the public API?
I've never seen anywhere that Prototype is the public API for Tapestry.
I think this is the case and backwards compatibility becomes a non-issue at this point.

On Dec 14, 2011, at 2:07 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:36:18 -0200, Hugi Thordarson <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> As a new Tapestry user with no legacy code whatsoever… +1
>> ;-)
>
> I'll need to change my Tapestry user hat for my Tapestry PMC member hat now. :) A little bit of history . . .
>
> In my humble opinion, the biggest issue in Tapestry's decade-long history is the lack of backward compatibility between major releases (3 to 4, 4 to 5). Some people (including some very insistent trolls) still say that. Tapestry 5 has at least 3 years of almost perfect backward compatibility and some people still complain about Tapestry's perceived lack of backward compatibility. No, I don't think Tapestry can remove Prototype support. Until now, Tapestry shipped with Prototype and many people (I'd say most users, as tapestry5-jquery was created in 2010) use Prototype for their JavaScript needs.
>
> * tapestry5-jquery team: when the first stable version was released? Just curious. :) By the way, keep up the good work! I haven't experimented it yet due to lack of free time, unfortunately . . .
>
> --
> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor
> Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
> http://www.arsmachina.com.br
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?

lprimak
In reply to this post by Michael Gentry-2
Yes, I reiterate my vote for Tapestry 6 too!  It's time.

On Dec 14, 2011, at 2:35 PM, Michael Gentry wrote:

> Tapestry 6 anyone?  :-)
>
> mrg
>
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:36:18 -0200, Hugi Thordarson <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> As a new Tapestry user with no legacy code whatsoever… +1
>>> ;-)
>>
>>
>> I'll need to change my Tapestry user hat for my Tapestry PMC member hat now.
>> :) A little bit of history . . .
>>
>> In my humble opinion, the biggest issue in Tapestry's decade-long history is
>> the lack of backward compatibility between major releases (3 to 4, 4 to 5).
>> Some people (including some very insistent trolls) still say that. Tapestry
>> 5 has at least 3 years of almost perfect backward compatibility and some
>> people still complain about Tapestry's perceived lack of backward
>> compatibility. No, I don't think Tapestry can remove Prototype support.
>> Until now, Tapestry shipped with Prototype and many people (I'd say most
>> users, as tapestry5-jquery was created in 2010) use Prototype for their
>> JavaScript needs.
>>
>> * tapestry5-jquery team: when the first stable version was released? Just
>> curious. :) By the way, keep up the good work! I haven't experimented it yet
>> due to lack of free time, unfortunately . . .
>>
>>
>> --
>> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
>> Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and
>> instructor
>> Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
>> http://www.arsmachina.com.br
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>
>
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Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?

JumpStart
Yes, bump up the number and keep backwards compatibility. That will send the right message.  Thumbs up.

On 15/12/2011, at 6:50 AM, Lenny Primak wrote:

> Yes, I reiterate my vote for Tapestry 6 too!  It's time.
>
> On Dec 14, 2011, at 2:35 PM, Michael Gentry wrote:
>
>> Tapestry 6 anyone?  :-)
>>
>> mrg
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:36:18 -0200, Hugi Thordarson <[hidden email]>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> As a new Tapestry user with no legacy code whatsoever… +1
>>>> ;-)
>>>
>>>
>>> I'll need to change my Tapestry user hat for my Tapestry PMC member hat now.
>>> :) A little bit of history . . .
>>>
>>> In my humble opinion, the biggest issue in Tapestry's decade-long history is
>>> the lack of backward compatibility between major releases (3 to 4, 4 to 5).
>>> Some people (including some very insistent trolls) still say that. Tapestry
>>> 5 has at least 3 years of almost perfect backward compatibility and some
>>> people still complain about Tapestry's perceived lack of backward
>>> compatibility. No, I don't think Tapestry can remove Prototype support.
>>> Until now, Tapestry shipped with Prototype and many people (I'd say most
>>> users, as tapestry5-jquery was created in 2010) use Prototype for their
>>> JavaScript needs.
>>>
>>> * tapestry5-jquery team: when the first stable version was released? Just
>>> curious. :) By the way, keep up the good work! I haven't experimented it yet
>>> due to lack of free time, unfortunately . . .
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
>>> Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and
>>> instructor
>>> Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
>>> http://www.arsmachina.com.br
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>
>>
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Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?

Howard Lewis Ship
I'm strongly against changing the version number to 6.

On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:59 AM, Geoff Callender
<[hidden email]> wrote:

> Yes, bump up the number and keep backwards compatibility. That will send the right message.  Thumbs up.
>
> On 15/12/2011, at 6:50 AM, Lenny Primak wrote:
>
>> Yes, I reiterate my vote for Tapestry 6 too!  It's time.
>>
>> On Dec 14, 2011, at 2:35 PM, Michael Gentry wrote:
>>
>>> Tapestry 6 anyone?  :-)
>>>
>>> mrg
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:36:18 -0200, Hugi Thordarson <[hidden email]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As a new Tapestry user with no legacy code whatsoever… +1
>>>>> ;-)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I'll need to change my Tapestry user hat for my Tapestry PMC member hat now.
>>>> :) A little bit of history . . .
>>>>
>>>> In my humble opinion, the biggest issue in Tapestry's decade-long history is
>>>> the lack of backward compatibility between major releases (3 to 4, 4 to 5).
>>>> Some people (including some very insistent trolls) still say that. Tapestry
>>>> 5 has at least 3 years of almost perfect backward compatibility and some
>>>> people still complain about Tapestry's perceived lack of backward
>>>> compatibility. No, I don't think Tapestry can remove Prototype support.
>>>> Until now, Tapestry shipped with Prototype and many people (I'd say most
>>>> users, as tapestry5-jquery was created in 2010) use Prototype for their
>>>> JavaScript needs.
>>>>
>>>> * tapestry5-jquery team: when the first stable version was released? Just
>>>> curious. :) By the way, keep up the good work! I haven't experimented it yet
>>>> due to lack of free time, unfortunately . . .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
>>>> Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and
>>>> instructor
>>>> Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
>>>> http://www.arsmachina.com.br
>>>>
>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
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>>>
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--
Howard M. Lewis Ship

Creator of Apache Tapestry

The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!

(971) 678-5210
http://howardlewisship.com

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Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?

Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo
In reply to this post by David Rees
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:10:54 -0200, David Rees <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It's up to the devs (like yourself) how long to provide backwards
> compatibility with Prototype.

Agreed. My opinion is the same: it should be provided for a long time yet.

> A configuration symbol to switch from one to another would be useful.

Agreed. I guess the T5 one will look quite similar to the  
SUPPRESS_PROTOTYPE one in tapestry5-jquery.

> I could also see it being useful on a
> per-page level when migrating larger apps.

Wouldn't this be already covered with JavaScript stacks?

--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,  
and instructor
Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
http://www.arsmachina.com.br

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Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?

lprimak
In reply to this post by Howard Lewis Ship
Is this because of the package names?  I would say its not much of an issue renaming the package names for us tapestry users with good tools.



On Dec 14, 2011, at 3:26 PM, Howard Lewis Ship <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm strongly against changing the version number to 6.
>
> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 11:59 AM, Geoff Callender
> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>> Yes, bump up the number and keep backwards compatibility. That will send the right message.  Thumbs up.
>>
>> On 15/12/2011, at 6:50 AM, Lenny Primak wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, I reiterate my vote for Tapestry 6 too!  It's time.
>>>
>>> On Dec 14, 2011, at 2:35 PM, Michael Gentry wrote:
>>>
>>>> Tapestry 6 anyone?  :-)
>>>>
>>>> mrg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Dec 14, 2011 at 2:07 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
>>>> <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 16:36:18 -0200, Hugi Thordarson <[hidden email]>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> As a new Tapestry user with no legacy code whatsoever… +1
>>>>>> ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I'll need to change my Tapestry user hat for my Tapestry PMC member hat now.
>>>>> :) A little bit of history . . .
>>>>>
>>>>> In my humble opinion, the biggest issue in Tapestry's decade-long history is
>>>>> the lack of backward compatibility between major releases (3 to 4, 4 to 5).
>>>>> Some people (including some very insistent trolls) still say that. Tapestry
>>>>> 5 has at least 3 years of almost perfect backward compatibility and some
>>>>> people still complain about Tapestry's perceived lack of backward
>>>>> compatibility. No, I don't think Tapestry can remove Prototype support.
>>>>> Until now, Tapestry shipped with Prototype and many people (I'd say most
>>>>> users, as tapestry5-jquery was created in 2010) use Prototype for their
>>>>> JavaScript needs.
>>>>>
>>>>> * tapestry5-jquery team: when the first stable version was released? Just
>>>>> curious. :) By the way, keep up the good work! I haven't experimented it yet
>>>>> due to lack of free time, unfortunately . . .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
>>>>> Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and
>>>>> instructor
>>>>> Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
>>>>> http://www.arsmachina.com.br
>>>>>
>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Howard M. Lewis Ship
>
> Creator of Apache Tapestry
>
> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to
> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast!
>
> (971) 678-5210
> http://howardlewisship.com
>
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Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?

Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo
In reply to this post by David Rees
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 17:49:19 -0200, Lenny Primak <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

> Yea, the first thing I heard about tapestry is that's it's good but  
> doesn't care about backwards compatibility.
> I had clean-sheed design so I didn't care.

In this scenario I wouldn't too (I even convinced my bosses at the time to  
use Tapestry 5 alphas), but many people do.

> As you saw, I chose my words very carefully.  'favor' is the operative  
> word, not 'the hell with backwards compatibility'

Yep!

> Isn't it true though that if you are relying on Prototype in your  
> Tapestry app, you aren't really relying on the public API?
> I've never seen anywhere that Prototype is the public API for Tapestry.

Nor me. :) Prototype isn't part of the Tapestry API but Tapestry provides  
it. One way of dealing with the backward compatibility issue here is to  
provide a package that provides Prototype in such a way thet the $()  
function is the Prototype one, not the jQuery one. Something like this was  
suggested for deprecated APIs, such as the old URL rewriting API, which is  
heavily used in the projects I work currently.

--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,  
and instructor
Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
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Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?

Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo
In reply to this post by David Rees
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 18:36:47 -0200, Lenny Primak <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

> Is this because of the package names?  I would say its not much of an  
> issue renaming the package names for us tapestry users with good tools.

Not only that: Howard once vehemently and publicly said that there  
wouldn't be a Tapestry version 6 and many people echoed it (me included)  
as a way to lower the perception that Tapestry doesn't care about  
backward-compatibility. We had a serious trolling problem before.

Check this thread:  
http://tapestry.1045711.n5.nabble.com/Tapestry-6-td2415654.html. Some guy  
makes up a false Howard statement that T6 would be released in the 4th  
quarter of 2008. (Thiago looks at calendar) hey, it's 4th quarter 2011 and  
no Tapestry 6! :P

This thread also has a lengthy discussion about having a T6 or not, but  
without trolling:  
http://tapestry.1045711.n5.nabble.com/Tapestry-6-Famous-last-words-td2432735.html.  
Best comment: Michel Gentry: "Simple: T5.0 => T5.1 => ... => T5.9 =>  
T7.0". hehehe. Or my own comment: Another path would be T5.0 => T5.1 =>  
... => T5.9 => ... T5.10 ... (supposing backward-compatility is kept  
besides for minor things, of course) Or do it the Sun way: T5.0 => T5.1 =>  
... => T5.4 => ... T9 :P

Anyway, after Chrome and specially Firefox, version numbers have becoming  
meaningless. And code always matter. :) I can't wait for Tapestry 5.99! :P

--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,  
and instructor
Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
http://www.arsmachina.com.br

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Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?

trsvax
In reply to this post by David Rees
At this point it seems like you could have a Tapestry5-jquery.jar and a Tapestry5-prototype.jar and Javascript support becomes like Hibernate vs JPA. You just include none/one/both depending on your needs. I would think something that could happen in 5.4 by just moving the prototype code into it's own jar.
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Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?

lprimak
In reply to this post by Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo
Dare I try to turn this thinking around on it's head...
Chrome, Firefox and other people have rightly realized that a version number is indeed a meaningless marketing tool. Version of the code is a SCM revision, thats all  
Perhaps it's not a bad thing and tapestry should get on board.
Microsoft broke a lot of promises, so did apple and they are still in business.
Steve Jobs biography is a good read especially on how not to listen to trolls.
If apple could dump Motorola chips and MacOS 9, tapestry can certainly move to version 6 peanut gallery be damned!


On Dec 14, 2011, at 3:58 PM, "Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 18:36:47 -0200, Lenny Primak <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Is this because of the package names?  I would say its not much of an issue renaming the package names for us tapestry users with good tools.
>
> Not only that: Howard once vehemently and publicly said that there wouldn't be a Tapestry version 6 and many people echoed it (me included) as a way to lower the perception that Tapestry doesn't care about backward-compatibility. We had a serious trolling problem before.
>
> Check this thread: http://tapestry.1045711.n5.nabble.com/Tapestry-6-td2415654.html. Some guy makes up a false Howard statement that T6 would be released in the 4th quarter of 2008. (Thiago looks at calendar) hey, it's 4th quarter 2011 and no Tapestry 6! :P
>
> This thread also has a lengthy discussion about having a T6 or not, but without trolling: http://tapestry.1045711.n5.nabble.com/Tapestry-6-Famous-last-words-td2432735.html. Best comment: Michel Gentry: "Simple: T5.0 => T5.1 => ... => T5.9 => T7.0". hehehe. Or my own comment: Another path would be T5.0 => T5.1 => ... => T5.9 => ... T5.10 ... (supposing backward-compatility is kept besides for minor things, of course) Or do it the Sun way: T5.0 => T5.1 => ... => T5.4 => ... T9 :P
>
> Anyway, after Chrome and specially Firefox, version numbers have becoming meaningless. And code always matter. :) I can't wait for Tapestry 5.99! :P
>
> --
> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
> Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor
> Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
> http://www.arsmachina.com.br
>
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> To unsubscribe, e-mail: [hidden email]
> For additional commands, e-mail: [hidden email]
>

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Re: prototypejs is dead - time to bring t5-jquery in?

Thiago H de Paula Figueiredo
In reply to this post by David Rees
On Wed, 14 Dec 2011 19:12:58 -0200, Lenny Primak <[hidden email]>  
wrote:

> Dare I try to turn this thinking around on it's head...
> Chrome, Firefox and other people have rightly realized that a version  
> number is indeed a meaningless marketing tool.

I don't agree much for the Tapestry market, which is developers, which  
know that Opera 11.60 isn't a better browser than Firefox 8 just because  
of the version number (Opera lover talking here.:))

> Version of the code is a  SCM revision, thats all
> Perhaps it's not a bad thing and tapestry should get on board.
> Microsoft broke a lot of promises, so did apple and they are still in  
> business.

That's also a very good reason for not liking them.  :D

> Steve Jobs biography is a good read especially on how not to listen to  
> trolls.

The problem here is that people still listen to trolls.

> If apple could dump Motorola chips and MacOS 9, tapestry can certainly  
> move to version 6 peanut gallery be damned!

Again, I don't think Tapestry history allows for that now nor in the next  
couple years for marketing and trust reasons. As some people said, if in  
the future the need for a non-backward compatible version of Tapestry  
arises, it should choose another name.

--
Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo
Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer,  
and instructor
Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda.
http://www.arsmachina.com.br

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